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轉貼自uad-1 forum....遇上這類客戶認真頭痛....
, 但我們卻有機會從中學習一下...
這位用戶做了一個測試, 發現precision maximizer (PM)會生成以下泛音:-
Most prominent harmonic = 3rd order harmonic (5th in music)
Second most prominent harmonic = 5th order harmonic (10th in music, a.k.a "major 3rd")
Third most prominent harmonic = 7th order harmonic (flat 14th in music, a.k.a. "minor/dominant 7th")
Fourth most prominent harmonic = 14th order harmonic (flat 21st in music, a.k.a. "minor/dominant 7th")
What's up with the 7th and 14th order harmonics? Are these really that prominent in real tubes? And what happened to the 2nd and 4th order harmonics? This seems really strange to me...
7th 和 14th 的泛音是否在真的在管子也出現? 那麼為何沒有 2nd 和 4th (因為真實的管子都能生成這個)
All the spectral analysis of tube harmonics I can find online show the strongest harmonic orders being (in order) 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc...
(that equals a major triad in music; octave, 5th above octave, two octaves, 3rd above two octaves, etc...)
在網上找到管子的最強的泛音排列是 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.
PS: shape was set to 50%, single-band, limiter off, nothing clipped 0dB.
PPS: I did this test after a disapointing attempt to try and replicate the sound of a clean bass guitar pushed through some tubes (I have both files, before and after the light tube drive). I matched the amount of distortion, but the sonics were WAAAAY off.
在非常失望之際, 我把一個 clean bass 分別用 PM 和 管子 測試,,,,聲音差距不少
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The following post (below) contains test based information...
I quite like the PM on bass guitar, & I think it's probably one of the better tube emulators in digital form right now.
我相當喜歡PM 在 BASS GTR 的效果, 我想它是現時在數字世界裡其中一個最好的模擬
I've never been happy with any type of digital emulation/model of analog distortion, & I figured if anyone could do it, it would be UA! Sadly, No.
從來沒有滿意過數字模擬的模擬失真, 我曾想 UA 能做到, 可是卻不.....
Precision Maximizer is one of the best harmonic distortion generators avalible in the digital domain.
But 3 questions remain (which include all similar digital processes I have tried).
PM 仍是在數字世界裡其中一個最好的失真生成器
#1: Is it suppossed to sound like a tube, tape or transistor? Even if it's said to sound like one, it never sounds like any of the above, & realistically sounds more like digital distortion with a low-pass filter. Why is this?
它是否按照例如 管子、磁帶 或 電晶體的失真? 或是說它可能比較接近其一, 但為何它卻像帶著低通的數字失真?
#3: The Sonic (spectral response, etc) is always way off. Why? I wonder if this has to do with simply obtaining the right balance of harmonic distortion...
為何聲音上總是那麼大的差別, 我還以為只要把泛音失真稍做平衡便可以了...
#3: All digital emulations of analog distortion (mainly attempting to emulate tubes or tape) have linear levels of distortion which are unlike the real thing which tends to have a much more exponentially sinusoidal dynamic response.
所有數字模擬失真 (主要模仿管子和磁帶) 都是線性失真, 而真實的卻有較多正弦曲線響度反應
Digital emulations of analog distortions are getting better, but it's happening VERY slowly! What the PM does is similar to what other plugins have been doing for years. What technical aspect is being ignored? Obviously something is being ignored, because I can hear it clear as day and night! For some reason the component is either not known to the programmer, maybe considered to be not important to the signal, or possibly considered to be too CPU/DSP intensive. Which is it?
數字模擬失真的發展已越來越好, 但進度仍然很慢, PM 的表現和數年前的插件仍是很相似, 究竟有什麼技術上問題東西被忽略了? 明顯地是被忽略了, 一些不明的理由讓開發者無法達到, 或者是他們認為對訊號不重要的東西, 又或者是對CPU/DSP增加很大負擔的問題, 究竟是什麼呢?
[ 本帖最后由 himhui 于 07-9-28 16:00 编辑 ]
, 但我們卻有機會從中學習一下...這位用戶做了一個測試, 發現precision maximizer (PM)會生成以下泛音:-
Most prominent harmonic = 3rd order harmonic (5th in music)
Second most prominent harmonic = 5th order harmonic (10th in music, a.k.a "major 3rd")
Third most prominent harmonic = 7th order harmonic (flat 14th in music, a.k.a. "minor/dominant 7th")
Fourth most prominent harmonic = 14th order harmonic (flat 21st in music, a.k.a. "minor/dominant 7th")
What's up with the 7th and 14th order harmonics? Are these really that prominent in real tubes? And what happened to the 2nd and 4th order harmonics? This seems really strange to me...
7th 和 14th 的泛音是否在真的在管子也出現? 那麼為何沒有 2nd 和 4th (因為真實的管子都能生成這個)
All the spectral analysis of tube harmonics I can find online show the strongest harmonic orders being (in order) 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc...
(that equals a major triad in music; octave, 5th above octave, two octaves, 3rd above two octaves, etc...)
在網上找到管子的最強的泛音排列是 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.
PS: shape was set to 50%, single-band, limiter off, nothing clipped 0dB.
PPS: I did this test after a disapointing attempt to try and replicate the sound of a clean bass guitar pushed through some tubes (I have both files, before and after the light tube drive). I matched the amount of distortion, but the sonics were WAAAAY off.
在非常失望之際, 我把一個 clean bass 分別用 PM 和 管子 測試,,,,聲音差距不少
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following post (below) contains test based information...
I quite like the PM on bass guitar, & I think it's probably one of the better tube emulators in digital form right now.
我相當喜歡PM 在 BASS GTR 的效果, 我想它是現時在數字世界裡其中一個最好的模擬
I've never been happy with any type of digital emulation/model of analog distortion, & I figured if anyone could do it, it would be UA! Sadly, No.
從來沒有滿意過數字模擬的模擬失真, 我曾想 UA 能做到, 可是卻不.....
Precision Maximizer is one of the best harmonic distortion generators avalible in the digital domain.
But 3 questions remain (which include all similar digital processes I have tried).
PM 仍是在數字世界裡其中一個最好的失真生成器
#1: Is it suppossed to sound like a tube, tape or transistor? Even if it's said to sound like one, it never sounds like any of the above, & realistically sounds more like digital distortion with a low-pass filter. Why is this?
它是否按照例如 管子、磁帶 或 電晶體的失真? 或是說它可能比較接近其一, 但為何它卻像帶著低通的數字失真?
#3: The Sonic (spectral response, etc) is always way off. Why? I wonder if this has to do with simply obtaining the right balance of harmonic distortion...
為何聲音上總是那麼大的差別, 我還以為只要把泛音失真稍做平衡便可以了...
#3: All digital emulations of analog distortion (mainly attempting to emulate tubes or tape) have linear levels of distortion which are unlike the real thing which tends to have a much more exponentially sinusoidal dynamic response.
所有數字模擬失真 (主要模仿管子和磁帶) 都是線性失真, 而真實的卻有較多正弦曲線響度反應
Digital emulations of analog distortions are getting better, but it's happening VERY slowly! What the PM does is similar to what other plugins have been doing for years. What technical aspect is being ignored? Obviously something is being ignored, because I can hear it clear as day and night! For some reason the component is either not known to the programmer, maybe considered to be not important to the signal, or possibly considered to be too CPU/DSP intensive. Which is it?
數字模擬失真的發展已越來越好, 但進度仍然很慢, PM 的表現和數年前的插件仍是很相似, 究竟有什麼技術上問題東西被忽略了? 明顯地是被忽略了, 一些不明的理由讓開發者無法達到, 或者是他們認為對訊號不重要的東西, 又或者是對CPU/DSP增加很大負擔的問題, 究竟是什麼呢?
[ 本帖最后由 himhui 于 07-9-28 16:00 编辑 ]
Comparing the Precision Maximizer to the Inflator...
INFLATOR 的比較
I N F L A T O R - H A R M O N I C S . . .
Most prominent harmonic = 3rd order harmonic (5th in music)
Second most prominent harmonic = 5th order harmonic (10th in music, a.k.a "major 3rd")
Third most prominent harmonic = 9th order harmonic (flat 16th in music, a.k.a. "2nd/9th")
Fourth most prominent harmonic = 12th order harmonic (flat 19th in music, a.k.a. "5th")
In the case of Inflator, it is creating a major 2nd (or 9th, without the 7th)... and eventually a dominant 9th.
INFLATOR 生成了 major 2nd 的泛音 (或 9th , 沒有 7th), 成了 dominant 9th
The Precision Maximizer is creating a hard dominant chord. PM 所出來的是 hard dominant 和弦
(I would suspect that the PM should sound better than Inflator in minor keys, 我估計 PM 在小調下會比 INFLATOR 的聲音好
and Inflator should sound better in major keys, INFLATOR 在 大調時會比較好
but this is only due to the fact that both are very non-linear 而 and skipping the 2nd & 4th order harmonics, that real tubes have) 但只是由於它們都不太線性的表現 和 沒有了真實管子的 2nd 和 4th的泛音
Another way to look at it...
The Precision Maximizer is making larger leaps (regarding harmonics)
以另一方面看, PM 在泛音方面有較大的躍動
Yet another way to look at it...
The Inflator obtains the 9th order harmonic (2nd musically) before most tubes do
INFLATOR 就提供了很多管子都沒有的 9th (而2nd 泛音較富有音樂性的)
And yet another way to look at it...
The Precision Maximizer obtains more tube based harmonics "in order" than Inflator
(however, both processes seem to be missing the 2nd and 4th order harmonics)
PM 比INFLATOR 提供了伕INFLATOR 較多泛音排列, 但卻沒了 2nd 和 4th
Looking at the spectral graph (regarding the slope):
- Inflator adds harmonic content more linearly
- Precision Maximizer adds harmonic content less linearly
inflator 加了的泛音內容較線性, pm則較少
SUMMARY: 撰要:-
Precision Maximizer generates more tube based harmonics Precision Maximizer generates higher harmonics like tubes do!
Precision Maximizer generates 7th order harmonics when it should not
PM 生成較多管子為基礎的泛音
它像管字提供了較高的泛音
生成了 7th 掛列的泛音效而管子是沒有的
Inflator generates a more even slope of harmonics like tubes do!
Inflator focases more on even-multiple harmonics (octaves), 2, 4, 8, etc
Inflator generates more 2nd and 3rd order harmonics (a major triad) than PM
inflator 生成了像管子較多平均斜傾度泛音
較集中於偶數之倍數的泛音, 如 2, 4, 8 等
生成較多 2nd、3rd排列的泛音
ANALYSIS & CONCLUSION: 分析和總結:-
Both Inflator & PM are similar, but sonically differnt when pushed hard
Neither Inflator nor PM generate 2nd or 4th order harmonics like real analogue tubes do!
PM 和 Inflator 都是類似的, 但當使用較誇張時, 聲音就顯得不同
而它們都沒有像管子生成 2nd 和 4th 的泛音掛列
[ 本帖最后由 himhui 于 07-9-28 16:47 编辑 ]
INFLATOR 的比較
I N F L A T O R - H A R M O N I C S . . .
Most prominent harmonic = 3rd order harmonic (5th in music)
Second most prominent harmonic = 5th order harmonic (10th in music, a.k.a "major 3rd")
Third most prominent harmonic = 9th order harmonic (flat 16th in music, a.k.a. "2nd/9th")
Fourth most prominent harmonic = 12th order harmonic (flat 19th in music, a.k.a. "5th")
In the case of Inflator, it is creating a major 2nd (or 9th, without the 7th)... and eventually a dominant 9th.
INFLATOR 生成了 major 2nd 的泛音 (或 9th , 沒有 7th), 成了 dominant 9th
The Precision Maximizer is creating a hard dominant chord. PM 所出來的是 hard dominant 和弦
(I would suspect that the PM should sound better than Inflator in minor keys, 我估計 PM 在小調下會比 INFLATOR 的聲音好
and Inflator should sound better in major keys, INFLATOR 在 大調時會比較好
but this is only due to the fact that both are very non-linear 而 and skipping the 2nd & 4th order harmonics, that real tubes have) 但只是由於它們都不太線性的表現 和 沒有了真實管子的 2nd 和 4th的泛音
Another way to look at it...
The Precision Maximizer is making larger leaps (regarding harmonics)
以另一方面看, PM 在泛音方面有較大的躍動
Yet another way to look at it...
The Inflator obtains the 9th order harmonic (2nd musically) before most tubes do
INFLATOR 就提供了很多管子都沒有的 9th (而2nd 泛音較富有音樂性的)
And yet another way to look at it...
The Precision Maximizer obtains more tube based harmonics "in order" than Inflator
(however, both processes seem to be missing the 2nd and 4th order harmonics)
PM 比INFLATOR 提供了伕INFLATOR 較多泛音排列, 但卻沒了 2nd 和 4th
Looking at the spectral graph (regarding the slope):
- Inflator adds harmonic content more linearly
- Precision Maximizer adds harmonic content less linearly
inflator 加了的泛音內容較線性, pm則較少
SUMMARY: 撰要:-
Precision Maximizer generates more tube based harmonics Precision Maximizer generates higher harmonics like tubes do!
Precision Maximizer generates 7th order harmonics when it should not
PM 生成較多管子為基礎的泛音
它像管字提供了較高的泛音
生成了 7th 掛列的泛音效而管子是沒有的
Inflator generates a more even slope of harmonics like tubes do!
Inflator focases more on even-multiple harmonics (octaves), 2, 4, 8, etc
Inflator generates more 2nd and 3rd order harmonics (a major triad) than PM
inflator 生成了像管子較多平均斜傾度泛音
較集中於偶數之倍數的泛音, 如 2, 4, 8 等
生成較多 2nd、3rd排列的泛音
ANALYSIS & CONCLUSION: 分析和總結:-
Both Inflator & PM are similar, but sonically differnt when pushed hard
Neither Inflator nor PM generate 2nd or 4th order harmonics like real analogue tubes do!
PM 和 Inflator 都是類似的, 但當使用較誇張時, 聲音就顯得不同
而它們都沒有像管子生成 2nd 和 4th 的泛音掛列
[ 本帖最后由 himhui 于 07-9-28 16:47 编辑 ]